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9ways

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Much has been said in the past year regarding the association of sound frequencies to planets in our Solar System. Examples of this are the planetary gongs and tuning forks made by Paiste, Meinl, Biosonics Acutonics, etc. Much of this is based upon The Cosmic Octave by Hans Cousto. The theory behind this is derived from a mathematical formula based upon orbital paths around the Sun in a fixed period of time. From this, a frequency is assigned, a multiplier of different numbers is applied in order for them to finally reside in the same octave. That is a basic overview. I took this 'mathematical formula' to a group of physicists to check for accuracy. Because the entire premise of this is based upon an orbital frequency, I asked if an 'orbital frequency' is an accurate method of determination. The overwhelming reply was NO. There is no such thing as an 'orbital frequency' according to this physics group. They referred to the concept as 'rubbish' and 'voodoo mathematics'. Now before you attempt to shoot the messenger here; I advise you to take Cousto's theory to a scientist or a group of scientists like I did, and get their opinion.

I suppose that the 'sellers' of such merchandise should be held accountable for using misleading information to make a profit. Cousto can peddle whatever opinion he wants, but the others should be much wiser.

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delamora sound&evolution

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Reply with quote  #2 
Thank you for that Mitch. I once had a discussion with a scientist about sound in space in general, which, I suppose would make the measurement of sound frequencies in space possible in the first place. So since there is no oxygen, which based on my humble scientific understanding is a prerequisite for sound to be carried and measured, isn't it a goofy kind of theory to begin with? Or perhaps I should have read on in Cousto's book (I have the German version), which admittedly I had put aside for "later" as it was rather dense material, and the answer may have been revealed? 

Any thoughts on the measurement / oxygen issue?

Thank you.

Marian Kraus
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9ways

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Space is a vacuum, and you need a medium for sound to travel in. Earth's medium is Air. You can detect 'radiation' in space, and that can be made audible. Cousto's theory is based upon the orbital path of a planet around the sun in one year. A different formula is used for the sun of course. Once it's orbital frequency in determined, we need to make it audible. A different 'multiplier' is used for each planet in order to make it 'fit' into the same octave (cosmic octave). It is also the range of Gongs that are the most popular 'sizes' for Paiste. If the same multiplier was used, we would have huge Gongs and tiny Gongs, far outside the sizes used now by Paiste and Meinl, and cost prohibited. The same goes with tuning forks, you would a tiny fork and one the height of your body. What I find amazing, is that people argue the point about the planetary series of sound tools, but no one has done the math or understood how Cousto made up a formula to fit his idea. The WHOLE PREMISE is based upon an orbital path and a frequency determined from that. But in my original post, we now know how the science community feels about his theory. It's all about marketing, and not about science; and once again, the 'sound healing community' has fallen for it.
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Gongtopia

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Reply with quote  #4 
While I don't doubt the desire and intent of Hans Custo and others working with him, I've always been dubious about the whole Planet tuning thing. I have nothing against the Planet Gongs themselves and really like a lot of them, but the math just never clicked for me. And from there, assigning other values, like Chakras/colors/personality traits/etc to the Gongs just seems like interesting marketing ideas.

At least when Walter Meyer and Robert Paiste came up with the Sound Creation Gong Series, they said that they named them after the impressions they got from them. And they were working with ideas to create a series of Gongs based on opposites, a sort of yin/yang sound aspect: Sun/Moon, Fire/Water, Peace/Fight and Earth. I must say that the #s 8, 9 & 10, the Chakra Gongs, do actually physically affect the 3 regions (throat/chest/abdomen) with their vibrations. Whether they actually affect the corresponding Chakras is up to the individual.

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bobmichigan

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Reply with quote  #5 
Formula for earth, 365days/year converted down to Hz or cycles/sec. Then, since the freq will be extremely low freq, you need to bring the freq into the audio spectrum by increasing the octave. multiply by 2 over and over again until you are within the audio spectrum, between 20Hz and 20,000Hz. Once there you can lookup freq to determine the actual note. Repeat for all remaining planets. The result will form a 9 note musical chord representing our solar system. Or simply just use the earth and our moon to find our harmony
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Throatsinger

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Bob, why not equate each planet with a position on a baseball team? If you don't believe Pluto is a planet since it got demoted, that's cool, Pluto can be the pitcher, as that's not considered a position player, either. Let's semi-arbitrarily assign each a pitch. Now we have an octave's worth of pitches.

Why an octave? Well, as in all these astrologically-based system, we'll just fit them to a popularly held convention, since we like patterns and familiar patterns support a feeling of "well, that must make sense."

See, it's not the reality of what we are dealing with, or what we perceive, even; rather such systems are based on what we want to believe, what convention to subscribe to. It's not the particulars or the facts that support the planetary thing, it's the belief in astrology, and that then shapes the way one sees the situation.

Granted, not all who subscribe to the planetary perspective necessarily believe in astrology; some might just think along the lines of "well, they seem to know what they're talking about," or some may just think it sounds good for business.


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bobmichigan

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Reply with quote  #7 
I don't prescribe to any particular metaphysical belief. I simply have a back ground in math, science, and music. It is a known fact that there are approx. 24hrs in a day and so that can be expressed in cycles per second, pure math. An octave is known to be a factor of 2, also nothing implied, just pure math. I find it inspiring, as a musician and scientist, to see that mathematically, music spans the entire known universe in the macro as well as micro. Nothing esoteric, just simple multiplication and division, not too hard to understand. (again nothing implied)
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9ways

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There is no question that music is Math and that frequency is based on Math. The theory behind Cousto's work is what is in question. I have yet to find a Physicist, Astro-Physicist, or Astronomer that supports the idea of computing a planets frequency based upon it's orbital path. Even the people that 'support' Cousto's 'theory', know that each planet calculated by him used a different multiplier in order to put them in the same octave. The other thing to consider is that, what effect if any, does frequency have on non-carbon based systems? There's very little work in this area. For the longest time, humans thought that the Earth was flat, even the science of that period. We laugh about it today, but I suspect that the same thing will happen with Cousto's work, when people who think this is science, will realize it's just a folly, and not a certainty.


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Throatsinger

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Mitch, to paraphrase Fargo, "I can't agree 100% with your police work there." I certainly question that music is math. Math may be used to describe and/or analyze music, to encode and decode "it" (such techniques actually require much more than just the math to do the encoding/decoding), to analyze it, but it is not the music itself. The music itself is experience, perception, and such.  It's similar to me to confusing a recipe, or even the recipe and ingredients, to an actual meal. Or musical notation for actual music.

It is often said, probably incorrectly, that Sir Isaac Newton was the last scientist to believe in astrology. No doubt there are rare exceptions, just like the number of scientist climate-change deniers that aren't paid for their "belief." But if there is no interest in astrology, there is little need or interest in "planetary" gongs, etc., except for marketing and other $ related motivations.

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bobmichigan

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Reply with quote  #10 
A sound healing is in order
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Guy Beider

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Reply with quote  #11 
Thank you for sharing Mitch, finally someone is unveiling the truth about this myth.
Couldn't buy this theory along with other common assumptions such as chakra - notes correspondence. How can we take an angular velocity in the first place and equalize it to the ordinary frequency without even putting the numbers in the formula? Not even talking about bringing the values of frequencies into the hearing range by increasing the octaves. I wrote an article about this topic lhere it is.

https://bellsofbliss.com/blogs/good-to-know/planetary-singing-bowls


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HimalayanBowls

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Reply with quote  #12 
People are always looking for connections and correspondences. It's human nature and it's the main MO of new age marketing: connect everything, even if there is no connection. 
It makes sense to many people to connect tones with planets, colors, chakras - it fits their beliefs and it also gives them something to believe in. If life can be wrapped up with a neat bow and be understood as a simple set of relationships, that would be easier. Beliefs put the mind at ease.
it's tempting to believe that all our experience and sound reality can be summed up with 7 chakra tones. Never mind that there are thousands of tones and innumerable tonal combinations - we only need 7 because that's what the crystal bowl people decided.
The truth is that all of this was invented. We know who invented the planet theory. We know who invented the chakra theory.
We know who invented the 7 metal myth. We know who spread them all through books and the internet.
Just because something is disseminated doesn't make it true. This is the problem with "false news" - once something is published, it's repeated. Once it's repeated, it's regarded as true.
Since 2001, I've been yelling about chakra tones and planet tones, telling everyone not to believe such theories. Now they are more popular than ever, but some people are realizing that it's all clever marketing.
Clever marketing - that's all it ever was. Yes Cousto wrote his book which was pretty obscure for years. But then a bunch or product marketeers turned it into a thing - without the Paiste gongs, sure the planet theory would not have taken off.
Chakra tones has been even more heavy marketing. Without all the marketing, chakra tones probably would not have become so entrenched in this field.
I'm marketing products myself which rely on some abstract and spiritual ideas, but I don't hammer customers with it or try to make a new religion out of it like they have. I created my new Faith, Hope, Love, Peace bowls based on principles from religion, meditation and sound healing. In sound healing, one core idea is to hold an intention for your client. The sound is a vehicle for physical, mental, emotional, spiritual vibrations. I created designs like the "Love" bowls with hearts as a way to embody this method. The image and the word are permanent on the bowl and meant to influence the participants.
But I don't market them as magic spiritual vessels that will transmit your spiritual intentions, or whatever. I'm sure I'd sell a ton if I capitalized on people's inner desires and beliefs, but that's dishonest in my view. Likewise promising that a certain tone is going to heal a pineal gland is dishonest. Promising "balanced chakras" is incomplete and misleading. Yes - the client is getting benefit, but what is the actual benefit? Let's stop polluting the waters with concepts and theories. As I've been saying for years, "let the bowls speak for themselves."

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JamieB

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Reply with quote  #13 
I am loving all of these conversations about chakras, notes, color, sound, planets! Being someone who plays and teaches gongs and crystal bowls I am constantly navigating around all of the misinformation out there about connecting them all together.  I happen to love the planet gongs and have a lot of them - but I use the planets as a labeling system...same for the bowls.  It is something that bothered me from when I first learned about the bowls and gongs 14 years ago and is something I am passionate about sharing with my students. Thanks everyone for posting some fantastic information! I'm new to this forum and look forward to reading more. :-)


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Johnetone

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Reply with quote  #14 
I'm not sure how a "scientist" could deny that an orbital period is also measurable as frequency; since period/frequency has pretty much the same meaning when studying oscillating systems?
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RichG

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Reply with quote  #15 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnetone
I'm not sure how a "scientist" could deny that an orbital period is also measurable as frequency; since period/frequency has pretty much the same meaning when studying oscillating systems?


If you are referring to what Mitch said above, "I have yet to find a Physicist, Astro-Physicist, or Astronomer that supports the idea of computing a planets frequency based upon it's orbital path.", I don't think what he meant is what you are saying.

He didn't say orbital period is not a measurable frequency (which of course you are right, it is), he said it's not a planet's frequency. The path you take is not the inherent 'you'. I can ride my bike in many different repeatable ways around my neighborhood. My essential being, my weight, mass, 'resonance', core vibration, etc is independent of the path travelled and is not measurable based on which roads I ride on.

The orbital period is not a measure of the resonance or frequency(s) of the planet itself. Additionally, I see it as a huge stretch to believe that a planet's orbital period is a measurable sound frequency.

 


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