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Invoker

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hello there!

I'm Piotr "Invoker" Płaneta and it is my first post on this forum 😉 I've read most of threads in "Primary Sounding Circle", I'm doing lots of research because I want to start my sound healing practice combined with meditation. I wish to buy a gong for myself and I got a lot of great information on this forum and I'm very grateful for it 😉 Right now I feel more informed and less likely to get scammed by things like planetary sound instruments etc.

I would like to ask you for opinion on Peter Hess instruments and method. I was attenting few days ago a sound healing session with a lady who conducted the process according to this method and playing on instruments certificated by this institute. I guess you've heard about it, since at least in my country (Poland) it seem to be popular among sound healing community. In short, they claim to be doing a selection of instruments, that when they are "checked by Peter Hess institute" that means that playing this instrument is healthy for people, that its harmonics are good etc. You can ever order such a gong from thier shop, that is on their website.

Also they are conducting courses to teach people how to heal with bowls and gongs. They seem to be very holistic and somewhat even esotheric in their approach. I don't mind it thou it's a little bit too esotheric for me, but it is not that importaint. What really interests me is two things:

1. Do you think that instruments certified by them are indeed worth buying, that is it a safe buy? I'm really considering getting a gong from them, because I lack skill to know by myself if instrument is really good.

2. Do you think their courses are worth taking? Here in Poland a lot of people have their certificates that seem to be respected. But you know... the fact that something is popular doesn't necessarily mean it is good, thats why I ask for your opinion.

The atmosphere of openness and rational skepticism on this forum makes me really respect your judgement.

Also if you have time , could you please tell me if wind gong is better than tam tam for sound massage? Also what size of gong would be most prefferable for gong sound massage? I suppose bigger the better because of low frequencies that gets deep into the entire body?

If someone knows something about this subject, please share/help 😉

Best regards,
Piotr Płaneta


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RichG

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Reply with quote  #2 

Hi Piotr,

Thanks for your post and for joining the Forum!

I really don't know anything about Peter Hess and his work. Maybe others here do?

I didn't know anyone was checking and certifying instruments and determining whether they were "healthy" to use or not! I'm curious by what criteria and testing methods they make such determinations.

Maybe others here know? Mitch, Mike, Thomas, John....??


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9ways

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Reply with quote  #3 
These are all good questions. The Singing Bowls (majority) of the Hess bowls, come from India made by Manan, the same person who makes bowls for Meinl. Indian bowls are slightly different than Nepalese bowls. I personally prefer antique Nepalese bowls for sound therapy, because of their balance of Male and Female tone or sound. This is something that Peter never addresses. If he's this so called big authority, why does he not understand this trait about Himalayan Singing Bowls? Everybody is entitled to their opinion but not their own facts. He's 'technically' not teaching a Himalayan 'protocol' but a German one, as far as I'm concerned. Is this right or wrong? It's simply a different methodology. I'm sure some of Peter's teachers are not bad, I've met some of them, but I find them 'shallow' regarding factual and certain information. But, we have many teachers here in the USA who also 'fit' this description. Gongs for healing, another 'loaded' question. Personally I use large gongs - 96 - 101cm, primarily, and they can be Chinese, German Alpacca, or even nipple gongs. It depends on what I feel will work for that person's 'present' state. Gongs and Bowls do not solely do the work. It's the person behind the instrument and the person themselves that perform the holistic exercise. To state that this bowl or this gong will do ALL the work is ridiculous. People who feel this way are foolish. You seem to be of the mindset that you want to do this right, my advice is to listen to your heart, and not what someone says you should do. I hope this helps, if you need to further discuss this, just email me at 9waysacademia@gmail.com.
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Johnetone

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Reply with quote  #4 
Aloha Piotr!

The first thing I thought of when you mentioned that you were in Poland is that you should check out the really nice gongs made by Tone of Life! They are made in Poland, and you would probably have a great day if you had the chance to go visit them. I really like the way their stands look too. They seem to be really well designed.

Anyway, I think you're on the right track with using your instincts and senses to judge whether a gong is healing or not. I also agree with Mitch that the larger gongs are really where it's at for healing. My largest gong currently is only about 81cm and I am looking forward to the day when I can get a nice 96cm to harmonize with it, and make some of those lower sounds. 

Lastly, I would say that some of those Himalyan Bowls that Mitch also mentions, are worth looking into. A good 35 - 40cm bowl set on someones sacrum and played for 15 - 20 minutes is a wonderful treatment option! Many of my clients request that I "do that thing with the bowl" every time they walk into my space. It's somehow better than a vibrating massage tool. The sounds seem to be easier for the body to integrate, and it feels more natural than some rubber ball vibrating furiously upon your back.

Aloha ~ Tone
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Invoker

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Reply with quote  #5 
Thank you all for the answers! 😉

I've did some research and talked to some people who play gongs and bowls for years.

I will most likely get a gong-playing course with "Ryszard Zdzioch" who has 17 years experience with gongs and bowls. He as well as 2 different people I was talking to also highly recommends instruments certified by Peter Hess. As far as I can tell these instruments are very highly respected here in Poland. Every person who does healing with gongs and bowls are using these instruments. They seem to be good for their price. Tone of Life is another trend, but they're much more expensive. For example 90 cm Peter Hess certified tam tam gong costs around 650 euro, and Tone of Life 90 cm cosmo gong costs 2800 euro. So the price difference is huge.

Ryszard said that as far as Peter Hess institute teaching methods are not that good (they're too inflexible) and that they take way too much money for it, but their instruments are very well chosen. It is not my opinion, just opinion of 3 sound healers I was talking to and it seems to be good for begineers like me, who are not trained yet to really know what to look for in instrument.

@Rich - I think Peter Hess institute is checking if the harmonics of a gong/bowl are well tuned with each other. I don't know more yet, but if I'll know something, I'll share 😉

@John - As to "Tone of Life" they're sadly too expensive for me, even thou they look and sound awesome.

@9ways - I had pleasure to play on both Peter Hess bowls lately and on a nepal bowl in a buddhist temple and some cheap bowls as well. I can say that Peter Hess bowls sound pretty good, but the nepal bowl sounded more rich, mystical and had longer sustain, even thou it was a little damaged. Seems like good nepal bowls are better and "truer", and Peter Hess bowls are "safe bet" for begineers.
I think I'll go for Peter Hess bowls because they sell nice tuned sets. For example 3 bowls set that are in tune with each other. I would like to get a set of 3 nepal bowls eventually - but I'm afraid I don't have a skill to choose a set that would be "in tune" with each other yet. I would need much much more experience than I have right now to do that. I hope to get that somewhere in the future thou 😉 I somehow have a feeling that it is very importaint that the bowl set is not "random" but in tune with each other and that it is the priority over the quality of a individual bowls, what you think?

Thank you 9ways and Johnetone. I think I'll get a 100cm tam tam - seems to me to be the best compromise between transport issues (gongs larger than 100 cm require bigger stands and they're getting very big and heavy), and low frequency depth. Tam tams seems to have more low frequencies than fen gongs (especially in relation to mids/highs), and a 100 cm seems to be just in spot to be carrie-able and play deeply at the same time. I really want that depth, somehow I believe that low frequencies are importaint to get into the body. Your comments seems to go along with this (you both recommended gongs 95cm+ for healing) 😉 Thank you very much!

I'd also like to share scientific article with you. It is about resonant frequency of the body. It seems like very low frequencies can influence the body strongly.
This article is about that these frequencies from building machines around 5-10 hz can be damaging to the body.

Do you think that such low frequencies - if produced by healing instruments like gong could do the opposite - heal the body deeply?

What size would gong need to be to produce freuencies around 5-10 hz?? More or less what lowest freq could be produced by 100cm tam tam? Are there any source to get answers to such questions? I was googling and googling but I couldn't find anything on such topic.

Link to article:
https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/19515/C155.pdf?sequence=1

Best regards,
Piotr "Invoker" Płaneta
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Johnetone

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Reply with quote  #6 
you can create 5 - 10Hz frequencies with gongs that are tuned 5 - 10HZ apart. This is called subtractive harmonics. For example the Paiste Sidereal Moon Gong and Venus Gong create an 8 Hz beating when struck simultaneously because they are about 8Hz apart.

This works with any sized instrument of any kind of instrument. Basically if you have one thing tuned to say 80Hz and another thing tuned to say 88Hz, you now have an 8Hz subtractive beating that occurs. 

In order to create a 5 - 10Hz tone from a single gong. You either need a really big gong (think 200cm) or you need to figure out how to hit your smaller gong to create that frequency. 

For example, I can create sub-audible tones on my 24" Neptune gong by hitting the waxy outer rim instead of the tuned boss. I can't say what that frequency it is with true accuracy. However, I think it's somewhere around 12 - 16Hz. So you could conceivably strike a slightly larger gong like 32" or 38" and coax some of these frequencies out of them by striking them on their edges instead of their faces.

Most of the 100cm tam tams that I have heard probably don't get much lower than 50 - 60Hz.


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RichG

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Reply with quote  #7 

Thank you for posting that article, Piotr.

They say:
"...mechanical vibration which can interfere with comfort, working efficiency and, in some circumstances, health and safety."

I agree and feel there is little doubt that this is true, but I wish they had researched and/or posted some information on how such vibrations affect health and safety.

Many years ago I was working at a state university. My workshop and office were in the basement of a very large building with a giant heating and cooling system blowing in air from about 1000 feet away. Not far away was another lab/office with two chronically unhealthy people working there. One day I went over and sat with them at lunch and I immediately detected a very low frequency, barely audible, wavering vibration that almost immediately made me feel nauseous. I'm sure I would have joined them in chronic illness if I lived with that five days a week. I pointed it out to them but sadly they didn't hear it and the idea barely even registered with them. Again, this was an audible frequency, maybe around 20 - 30Hz.

Regarding your question of whether a "healing instrument" like a gong creating the same frequencies could "heal the body deeply", I can't answer that but my guess is "possibly but not necessarily". For one thing, I don't necessarily view the gong as a "healing instrument". Any musical instrument can be a "healing instrument" (i.e., capable of inducing a healing response) in the right hands, but so much depends on how it is used and the consciousness and skill of the person using it. Thus, even a gong can be a "not very healing instrument"!  Being that we don't experience a gong, or any non-electronic musical instrument, as a static, constant intensity, extended duration vibration, then it at least shouldn't have the same negative effects. (Also note that the study was done with mechanical vibration, not sound wave vibration). 

A gently applied, dynamically variable, low frequency sound wave vibration may well have positive 'sonic massage' effects, and that may well induce mildly or deeply healing responses for some people and some conditions.

If anyone has more knowledge or experience with this please tell us!

 

PS - The sound of a gently played gong, even by someone with no experience, can induce meditative states of consciousness in the player and nearby listener, and that meditative state can surely have a healing effect. So, yes, no disrespect to gongs intended above! 


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